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Mensa my Arse!
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Janet


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know that there is an actual maximum score for IQ tests. What I do remember from Psych Stats is that 95% of variation is included within two standard deviations of the mean and virtual all scores, 99.72% fall within three standard deviations of the mean. For IQs that means that an IQ higher 130 is pretty impressive and an IQ higher than 145 is extremely unlikely, but not actually impossible. Most discussions of bell curve stats don't go into detail on what happens with scores beyond the third standard deviation and don't bother to break show the percentages that fall beyond four. So I can't put a definite ceiling on it, but if someone tells me they have an IQ of 200 or more I usually believe they either were scored incorrectly, took a bad test or they're delusional or lying.
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Timmeh!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The mensa site gives the maximum score for several "standard" IQ tests as follows
Quote:
* Cattell III B - 148
* Culture Fair - 132
* Ravens Advanced Matrices - 135
* Ravens Standard Matrices - 131
* Wechsler Scales - 132


and says that a score in the top 2% of any of these will qualify you for entry.
I've never met anyone stupid enough to claim an IQ of 200 or more.

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Janet


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a woman who calls our telephone reference desk who does it all the time. She's not the only one I've heard do it either.

Most of what I said refers to the Stanford-Binet test, the first IQ test and the standard for many years. It's still the standard over here, although the Weschler is increasing in popularity. The thing about the Stanford-Binet is that it's not simply a paper and pencil taste and you can't take it yourself. You have to go to a trained administrator. This makes it difficult for the Mensa people, I think they call themselves Mensans, to get a hold of for as silly a reason as joining their club.

I have always thought of Mensa as rather silly and never even considered joining. Even if I didn't think group identity is the root of all evil, I still wouldn't want to join them. Sometimes though, especially when I used to work with people who thought I was weird for thinking about things and having a big vocabulary, I can see the appeal of having a place where you can go to talk to other smart people. And Mensa is a lot cheaper than going to university, which is one thing it has going for it.

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A Random Me


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice to see they discount that BBC Test the Nation Jobby - I'm sure it gives people an over-inflated sense of their scores. Mind you, that could just be that I'm inherently skeptical on any test I can literally do no wrong on.

> I've never met anyone stupid enough to claim an IQ of 200 or more.

Has anyone? I know I haven't, the few people I know that bandy numbers about have been properly tested or have a pretty decent idea, that said they're mostly 130+, so perhaps I associate with higher scoring people or the people with lower results don't mention theirs. But 200, no.

Edit - I now see Janet has.

> I can see the appeal of having a place where you can go to talk to other smart people.

What, you mean your libraries aren't filled with the best and brightest? I'm shocked. Ok, maybe not.

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Timmeh!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've considered joining Mensa a few times (depending on the test my IQ comes in between 126 and 141), but just been put off by the cost really. Plus I've got intelligent friends so I don't need to find others, and I don't feel the need for vindication or validation from anyone else either.

I've not really got any problem with people who are stupid, but I do hate belligerently stupid people who deride and ridicule those who show intelligence. In the words of the late lamented Bill Hicks "looks like we got ourselves a reader!"

The book I mentioned "200% of nothing" while tedious in places, did have some very interesting points. The (American) author even talks of a strange variant on the intelligence averse: a species of people who, while well-read, continue to deride people who show evidence of numeracy; as if mathematics, physics et al are somehow beneath them. I have to say, I've not encountered that particular one, but then I'm not a University Professor like the author.

Here's an interesting example from the book. Apparently at some time in the US, a consortium of electricity companies ran an ad that said that 96 percent of the streets in the US are underlit and that 88% of of crime is commited on underlit streets. Now the ad was intended to show that more streetlights would be a good thing but, once you do the math(s), those numbers actually show that underlit streets are safer by a factor of 3!

It's full of examples like that where advertisers have deliberately misled people (he calls it "Math Abuse" and those that spot them "Abuse detectives"), and cautions people to watch out for examples always.

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A Random Me


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

> species of people who, while well-read, continue to deride people who show evidence of numeracy; as if mathematics, physics et al are somehow beneath them.

Funnily enough I have seen this sort of thing, not to extremes, but certainly to an extent to be dismissive of the other. Vaguely like the "our branch of science is best" discussions between certain sorts of physicists and chemists.

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Janet


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A number of my Psych textbooks used to claim that psychologists have physics envy because they want to be a hard science but they're not. I'm not particularly fond of math, but I'd never claim that people who do understand it are stupid or more stupid than English majors.

How to Lie with Statistics is also supposed to be a great book. My Psych Stats teacher highly recommended it. One of my favourite statistics is that about 70% of people believe they are above average. A similar one that scared me and helped explained why conservatives get elected is that something lik 70% of Americans said they believed they were or soon would be in the top 2% of income. We're a sad, delusional people we Americans.

I too have intelligent friends Timmeh, and an intelligent family. If I ever need to talk to a smart person I just call one of them. And I should say, Random, that most librarians are highly intelligent. It was in other jobs that I was considered a freak for being smart. However, librarians in a public library have to deal with a great number of uneducated and unintelligent people on a daily basis. Computers have skimmed off a lot of our intelligent patrons and left us with the high maintenance ones.

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Timmeh!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Janet wrote:
I too have intelligent friends Timmeh, and an intelligent family.

I never meant to suggest you didn't, and apologise if my words were so badly formed that such could be inferred from them

Janet wrote:
However, librarians in a public library have to deal with a great number of uneducated and unintelligent people on a daily basis. Computers have skimmed off a lot of our intelligent patrons and left us with the high maintenance ones.


That must be a nightmare, but think on this, at least the stupid members of the public that come to see you must have some kind of interest in learning or books, imagine what the ones that don't are like [shudders].

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A Random Me


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

> And I should say, Random, that most librarians are highly intelligent.

I had meant the patrons, sorry for not being clearer.

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Janet


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't taking offense, merely agreeing with you. Sorry if it came out wrong.

People who aren't interested in books come here all the time, to rent videos, play games on the computers or, in the case of the students, wait for their rides in bad weather. The high maintenance ones who genuinely need help don't bother me. The high maintenance ones who think their time is too valuable for them to spend doing their own research or listening to what the librarian says to them so they will know for next time Mad are the ones I'd really like to murder.

And try as I might I just don't understand the genealogy people. They just seem like stalkers to me as they desperately try to track down some fifth-cousin-twice-removed in a distant state. Of course, I have eight siblings and fifty-seven first cousins so I have never felt any need to find more relatives.

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Timmeh!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Timmeh! wrote:
The mensa site gives the maximum score for several "standard" IQ tests as follows
Quote:
* Cattell III B - 148
* Culture Fair - 132
* Ravens Advanced Matrices - 135
* Ravens Standard Matrices - 131
* Wechsler Scales - 132


and says that a score in the top 2% of any of these will qualify you for entry.
I've never met anyone stupid enough to claim an IQ of 200 or more.


Incidentally I just reread the page, it actually says that those are the acceptance marks for those tests, although it gives 161 as the maximum mark a middle aged adult can get on the Cattell III B.

Hmmm, 98% of 161 = 158 not 148. Since the figures are adjusted as you get older, perhaps 148 is the pass mark for some other age-group? Confused

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Azathoth


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got all the mensa questions earlier, but even though I've seen that quirky thing with the 'of' a number of times before I still had read it more than once to spot all 3 them.

When I was small I tested for an IQ in the 170 range. As a teen in the 140 range. And now I'm in 120s. My ambition is hit the low 80s before I'm 30. The mentally retarded have so much more *fun*!

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theladyinthestrawhat



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i love the sheffield library system and any library system any where and love the brilliant, charming, witty hard working librariens and the wonderful magical books, there is one thing that seems a bit weird in this lovely enviroment. the search computers, they seem a bit out of date, they work to an extent and do give informeation, but they do braek down if you 'accidentally' press one of the blanked out arrow keys.....
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COD


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm impressed with the level of intellect purported to be residing here on Sproutlore....does this mean the mind is tired and needs to let lose some regurgative toot in order to right itself for the next day, a memory dump to coincide with the evenings poo before bed.... Very Happy
Ah...Mensa tests, did anyone actaully order the home test and complete it and send it off?
I've read the home test, its mildy difficult, and surprisingly short.
I have had my IQ measured and I'm comfortable with that. However, the quest for intelligence is somewhat different for the quest for knowledge.
Facts ar great, reasoning is wonderful, application of the latter with knowledge of the former is pure genius.
I think pub quizzes and televison quiz shows like Who Wants to be a Million-whatsit! are the tabloid version of pseudo intelligence. Make people feel clever in front of the tv and down the pub. This kind of thing alters the ego somewhat and ironically makes us thick and stupid and unaware of the murmur within the Universe of time and space that is creative energy waiting to be grasped by people who love to use their skills for discovery and resolution. True intelligence is the brain's ability to decode the world around it and survive the many trials thereof.
As for Mensa, well anybody who can get people to part with money for bein patted on the back and told they're very clever, are very very clever and have obviously got this little endeavour sewn up good and proper.

G

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Azathoth


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always had an above avergae IQ. I've never been particularly intelligent and am certainly very far from being knowledgeable.
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