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Legal Recognition for Odinist Religion in UK
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A Random Me


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose. Would make a nice curiousity piece to give a whirl. If a strange evening's entertainment by most standards.

I can see him smiting.

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Lisa WTS-Collins


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James Earl Jones - how very calming. I reckon I could cope with him telling me about godly smiting as long as he doesn't use the DV voice!
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How very interesting... But surely we can all do a little better than joining those tedious Jedi? I suppose it all seemed hysterically funny the first 10,000 or so times somebody stuck it on a form for a laugh, but isn't it getting just a little dull? I think we can find a more amusing alternative, can we not?

For example: once upon a time, wasn't there a certain grocer in Chiswick called Reg Fulcanelli who ran something called the Sacred Order of the Golden Sprout? Why should this be any less "real" than the curious activities of those saddos with their plastic lightsabres? Incidentally, how much money is that Jedi Academy raking in? I thought the whole point of being a Jedi was that you gained the powers of telepathy, telekinesis, short-term precognition, mind control, etc. And when you graduated they gave you a magic glowing sword that could cut through steel. Does any of this actually happen at this so-called Jedi school? And if so, aren't they infringing the copyright of the Scientologists, who at one time (possibly they still do) promised most of the above superpowers, plus astral projection, total recall, massively enhanced IQ, and new teeth. But you had to give them a shitload of money first. And sign a contract promising to serve L. Ron Hubbard for the next billion years (ouch!). And you didn't even get a pretend magic sword out of a kids' movie.

Anyway, is there any serious objection to the founding of an actual Sacred Order of the Golden Sprout? And if the experiences of that chap who founded the Universal Life Church (the one in Modesto, California) purely as a protest against all other religions getting federal funding without having to pay any taxes are anything to go by, it wouldn't be that hard to get somebody's house declared a place of worship, allowing Sproutlore weddings - how cool would that be, eh? I'm not sure about charitable status, though: the Church of the SubGenius was turned down in the USA on the very bizarre grounds that it was "too funny to be of actual benefit to humanity" - go figure... Still, some bloody silly organisations are registered charities in the UK (I'm pretty sure the Monster Raving Loony Party is a charity) - the trick is to be totally benign and obviously a joke, as opposed to greedy, vindictive, and pathologically fuckwitted like the Scientologists. (Oops! Sorry! Stand by to get sued for several million quid...)

Well, it's a thought, isn't it? Oh, by the way, exactly which "Fellowship of Odin" are this crowd? There are a surprising number of organisations with the same or very similar names, and quite a few of them are very sick belief-systems with a strong white supremacist message (there's one that publishes anti-semitic articles with titles like "The Joy of Genocide" - I kid you not!). It's true that some of them are simply benign covens of Icelandic beardie-weirdies, but I can't figure out exactly which group this bunch are; and there seems to be an awful lot in the material published here about Muslims getting preferential treatment, being allowed to skive off work, etc. It's quite carefully worded, but are you sure you're not inadvertantly plugging a revoltingly racist gang of paranoid neo-Nazis?
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Janet


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That last paragraph, in a nutshell, is exactly why I am an EX-Odinist. Well, that combined with the realization that Odin, as a trickster God, was more than capable of telling the racist assholes that he didn't want any non-whites and telling people like me the exact opposite and not having any problem with that at all.

In my experience, trusting a God/ess who wants you to worship him/her is like trusting a politician who wants to get your vote. Not a good idea.

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A Random Me


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

> Does any of this actually happen at this so-called Jedi school?

I would strongly suspect that they mainly compete for excessive knowledge of the films etc.

However should they come storming out of the Romanian foothills to take over the world I will accept that I am, in fact, mistaken.

> it wouldn't be that hard to get somebody's house declared a place of worship, allowing Sproutlore weddings

Well-volunteered that man!

What about FSMism as a religion now?

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Lisa WTS-Collins


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yay! The man, the legend, the mystery that is Otto is here!


So glad to see you and why were you not at Derby?

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Scouse Elvis


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Look out for the book "Bare Faced Messiah", which you can still find in remaindered or second hand bookshops, and makes pretty interesting reading.


I've got a copy of it, its hilarious stuff, but it is an unofficial autobiagraphy, so who knows who to believe, but I certainly wouldn't believe L Ron Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re. comments on my post: if it's a bad idea to worship any deity who wants to be be worshipped, presumably that rules out absolutely everybody except Brian? By the way, I too have a copy of "Barefaced Messiah", and I agree that it's a most interesting read! Yes, it's unofficial, but that makes it a lot more reliable than the stuff the Scientologists release. I particularly enjoyed the truth about Ron's "heroic" war record; apparently the only times he ever went into action were a prolonged hunt for a totally non-existent Japanese submarine off San Francisco, and an inexplicable attack on an uninhabited islet that was technically an act of war against Mexico...

I didn't go to Derby because the first one was great, the second one was "been there, done that, and it's way too hot to be in this rather dull pub all day", and I couldn't persuade myself that it was worth the hike down from Edinburgh to look at the pretend beer labels yet again in the hope that it would be brilliant because some people were going to dress up as Vikings for no reason at all. Did I miss much? Judging by the photos, about 12 people turned up. (I suppose there will be a lengthy account in the Merc, but I've pretty much given up waiting for it to come out. Am I supposed to have been sent one yet?) Anyway, I shall probably turn up at the next major Sproutlore event that isn't identical to one I've been to already.

Now return to the index - I think this next bit deserves a new topic...
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Lady Clara


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Count Otto Black wrote:

I didn't go to Derby because the first one was great, the second one was "been there, done that, and it's way too hot to be in this rather dull pub all day", and I couldn't persuade myself that it was worth the hike down from Edinburgh to look at the pretend beer labels yet again in the hope that it would be brilliant because some people were going to dress up as Vikings for no reason at all. Did I miss much? Judging by the photos, about 12 people turned up. (I suppose there will be a lengthy account in the Merc, but I've pretty much given up waiting for it to come out. Am I supposed to have been sent one yet?) Anyway, I shall probably turn up at the next major Sproutlore event that isn't identical to one I've been to already.

Now return to the index - I think this next bit deserves a new topic...


So will you be organising the next Sproutlore event then Otto? Something new and exciting? Very Happy

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A Random Me


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should have had your new merc by now Otto. Mine turned up Saturday, if it hasn't matericalised by the end of the week (allowing for the slackness of bank holiday postal services) it might be worth looking into.
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Janet


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Re. comments on my post: if it's a bad idea to worship any deity who wants to be be worshipped, presumably that rules out absolutely everybody except Brian?


I didn't say it was a bad idea to worship any diety, just that it's a bad idea to believe the promises they make when they are trying to get you to worship them. It's a different thing entirely. All I'm advocating is worshipping with a grain of salt.

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Lisa WTS-Collins


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With a grain of salt? How does that work then? KNeel on it? Pop it in a reliquary? have it hold the candle aloft while you pray?


Wink

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do hope nobody's seriously suggesting that I organise the next "new and exciting" event in Derby, or anywhere else hundreds of miles away! Actually I did consider setting something up later in the year, but unfortunately my own personal circumstances are so chaotic just now (bloody UN War Crimes Tribunal turning up disguised as Jehovah's Witnesses again!) that I'm not sure I could organise anything at all. Also, since it's a very long journey for most people to come all the way up to Edinburgh, it would have to be fairly special, meaning even more organising and a fair bit of expense, so I'd have to be pretty sure that a big crowd could be expected to buy tickets and pay for it all, and there doesn't seem to be any reliable way of figuring out in advance how many people would go the extra distance. Anyway, I don't know yet whether I'll be able to give it the attention it deserves. We shall see...

I'm afraid I'm not terribly religious (which should surprise nobody), but this whole "grain of salt" business is a bit odd - isn't the whole point that you believe absolutely everything without question? And if God wants you to wear a special hat for the rest of your life or only eat cows that have died facing East or go to staggeringly awful sci-fi movies with John Travolta in them, that's just tough! If God's such a wimp that you can disagree with Him on the grounds that His views are somewhat politically incorrect, He doesn't sound worth worshipping in the first place. Also, every religion ever invented turns into a load of old toot if you take it with any grains of salt at all - I mean: "Be nice to everybody or after you die you'll be reborn as a halibut with a convenient case of total amnesia so unfortunately I can't prove this by asking a repentant-looking halibut..." Well, I ask you! That's the trouble with religion - if you apply any critical thinking to any of it, it's all just a load of shite!

That being said, if God does in fact exist, since no religion is especially plausible and they can't all be right, He is equally likely to manifest Himself as Odin as any of the others, and if you don't happen to think that His racial views are terribly nice, tough titty, fishface! Especially if you're black. Which, if you've read the Book of Genesis, you will know is God's punishment to you for being descended from a bloke who accidentally walked into a room and saw Noah lying in a drunken stupor with his willy hanging out. It is! Really! Look it up if you don't believe me! Or ask a vicar and watch him squirm. Incidentally, that's a good 'un next time you get Jehovah's Witnesses at the door - especially if you're black.

(Actually, thinking about how much God allegedly loves the Jews, and looking at the sort of things that have happened to them throughout recorded history, if Odin really, really likes white people, it might be an idea to black up. And if Iran gets that nuke they're after, I hope the State of Israel has a back-up defense strategy that doesn't rely on Jehovah...)

All of which proves that we should start our own religion - one that admits openly that it's a load of old toot, so you don't have to worry your head over such abstruse doctrinal matters as why God felt it necessary to specifically forbid the Israelites to eat birds with four legs, other than locusts... (For somebody who invented biology, He seems to be a bit vague about its finer points.)
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Janet


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I am truly disappointed that you didn't come to Derby after I flew all the way from America to be there. Niven wasn't lying when he said you'd be one of the most interesting persons I'd ever talk to. You are definitely as amusing as advertised, my dear Count.
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